From dugo at xs4all.nl Fri Apr 10 08:43:44 2015 From: dugo at xs4all.nl (Jacob Goense) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 00:43:44 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 Message-ID: I'm experimenting with adapting Unix history and lore using the new EXPECT/SEND feature in simh. My favorite guinea pig is the story of Ken Thompsons sabbatical at Berkeley where he brings up V6 on new 11/70 with Bob Kridle and Jeff Schriebman. Any details not yet recorded in obvious places[1] are of course more than welcome! One of the things I'm trying to get right is what they actually brought up there initially in 1975. This must have been standard V6 or the Bell UNIX Ken brought with him, but I can't figure it out. Salus has Schriebman, Haley and Joy installing the fixes on the 50 bugs tape late summer 1976. This suggests it was stock V6 initially, but they might have been playing on a different system or working from a fresh install in 1976. If it was stock V6 initially, what were they waiting for? Legal stuff? If it was 1975 Bell UNIX, can I reconstruct this using the 54 patches collected by Mike O'Brien[2], or is that going to be way off from what Thompson left in Urbana-Champaign with Greg Chesson in 1975? [1] http://www.tuhs.org/books.html minus the Bell journals for example [2] Hidden in /usr/sys/v6unix/unix_changes in one of the Spencer tapes http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Spencer_Tapes/unsw3.tar.gz From reed at reedmedia.net Fri Apr 10 11:44:01 2015 From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 20:44:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Apr 2015, Jacob Goense wrote: > If it was stock V6 initially, what were they waiting for? Legal stuff? > > If it was 1975 Bell UNIX, can I reconstruct this using the 54 patches > collected by Mike O'Brien[2], or is that going to be way off from what > Thompson left in Urbana-Champaign with Greg Chesson in 1975? When Thompson arrived, the Math and Statistics department had a shared machine running RSTS-E and Unix part time. McKusick wrote that the 11/70 arrived in Fall of 1975 and it was installed with Version 6. (Marshall Kirk McKusick. A BERKELEY ODYSSEY: Ten years of BSD history. Unix Review. January 1985. Volume 3. Pages 31-42.) But the Quarter Century book (page 155) says it was upgraded to V6 after Thompson left (he told me he left right after exams in June). Thompson told me he brought up the 11/70 for the EECS (but didn't tell me the version). (Jolitz and Allman told me the shared 11/45 also used for CS classes ran v6 (and RSTS-E) but I don't when it was upgraded to v6. The INGRES group also their own dedicated computer which ran 5th Edition and then v6.) (Thompson told me that he wrote his Pascal between quarter 1 and quarter 2 and that Fabry used it for his instruction the next quarter. Fabry told me that Thompson's students completed their programming assignments using the Cory Hall PDP-11/70 running Unix.) O'Brien suggested to me that the annotated fifty changes wouldn't apply to Berkeley's already hacked kernel. Allman and Fabry told me that in their code reading sessions, Thompson had the John Lions' annotated code for the v6 kernel. I believe these (Lions') lecture notes were from May 1976 (so not much time before Thompson left). > [2] Hidden in /usr/sys/v6unix/unix_changes in one of the Spencer tapes > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Spencer_Tapes/unsw3.tar.gz Thank you so much for pointing me to this. Too bad there aren't dates mentioned in the code or diff files. I am authoring a book that includes this same story (and I had basically the same questions). Jeremy C. Reed echo 'EhZ[h ^jjf0%%h[[Zc[Z_W$d[j%Xeeai%ZW[ced#]dk#f[d]k_d%' | \ tr '#-~' '\-.-{' From doug at cs.dartmouth.edu Sat Apr 11 04:37:25 2015 From: doug at cs.dartmouth.edu (Doug McIlroy) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 14:37:25 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 Message-ID: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> To tell whether Ken installed v6 or a copy of his home system, look at /usr/dict/words. On the home system that file is the wordlist from Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 7th edition, licensed for Bell Labs use only. On distribution systems we substituted the wordlist for "spell". The latter list contains many more proper names, acronyms, etc than the dictionary did, in particular names that appear in Unix documentation such as Ritchie, Kernighan, and McIlroy. It also lacks lots of trivially derivable words like "organizationally". If you do have the Webster file rather than the spell file, please don't propagate it. Doug From grog at lemis.com Sat Apr 11 14:45:29 2015 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:45:29 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> References: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> Message-ID: <20150411044528.GN27709@eureka.lemis.com> On Friday, 10 April 2015 at 14:37:25 -0400, Doug McIlroy wrote: > To tell whether Ken installed v6 or a copy of his home > system, look at /usr/dict/words. On the home system > that file is the wordlist from Webster's Collegiate > Dictionary, 7th edition, licensed for Bell Labs use > only. On distribution systems we substituted the wordlist > for "spell". The latter list contains many more proper > names, acronyms, etc than the dictionary did, in > particular names that appear in Unix documentation > such as Ritchie, Kernighan, and McIlroy. It also lacks > lots of trivially derivable words like "organizationally". In FreeBSD there are two files /usr/share/dict/web2 and /usr/share/dict/web2a, suggesting that they're Webster. web2 sounds like the words file, while web2a apparently consists of compounds. web2 doesn't contain Ritchie or McIlroy, though it does contain "organizationally". The oldest entry in the svn history is: r1638 | rgrimes | 1994-05-31 05:09:18 +1000 (Tue, 31 May 1994) | 2 lines BSD 4.4 Lite Share Sources I don't have sccs, so I can't check the origins of that file. Comments? Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: not available URL: From doug at cs.dartmouth.edu Sat Apr 11 16:39:52 2015 From: doug at cs.dartmouth.edu (Doug McIlroy) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 02:39:52 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20150411044528.GN27709@eureka.lemis.com> References: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> <20150411044528.GN27709@eureka.lemis.com> Message-ID: <201504110639.t3B6dq0Y002679@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: In FreeBSD there are two files /usr/share/dict/web2 and /usr/share/dict/web2a, suggesting that they're Webster. web2 sounds like the words file, while web2a apparently consists of compounds. web2 doesn't contain Ritchie or McIlroy, though it does contain "organizationally". The oldest entry in the svn history is: r1638 | rgrimes | 1994-05-31 05:09:18 +1000 (Tue, 31 May 1994) | 2 lines BSD 4.4 Lite Share Sources Those files are Webster's Unabridged. They were derived from a tape produced by the army and distributed without restrictions. The provenance is more fully described at puzzlers.org; burrow down their file tree from "Solving Tools of the NPL" to "The NPL Wordlists" and "Our Wordlists" to "Doug McIlroy's Wordlists" Doug From dugo at xs4all.nl Sun Apr 12 00:23:53 2015 From: dugo at xs4all.nl (Jacob Goense) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:23:53 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> References: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> Message-ID: On 2015-04-10 20:37, Doug McIlroy wrote: > To tell whether Ken installed v6 or a copy of his home > system, look at /usr/dict/words. On the home system > that file is the wordlist from Webster's Collegiate > Dictionary, 7th edition, licensed for Bell Labs use > only. On distribution systems we substituted the wordlist > for "spell". The latter list contains many more proper > names, acronyms, etc than the dictionary did, in > particular names that appear in Unix documentation > such as Ritchie, Kernighan, and McIlroy. It also lacks > lots of trivially derivable words like "organizationally". > > If you do have the Webster file rather than the spell > file, please don't propagate it. Good to know, I doubt I'll ever run into a dump of a 1975 CORY though. For now I assume Thompson erred on the safe side and brought his home system as reference material rather than install media. /Jacob From imp at bsdimp.com Sun Apr 12 00:41:36 2015 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:41:36 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <201504110639.t3B6dq0Y002679@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> References: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> <20150411044528.GN27709@eureka.lemis.com> <201504110639.t3B6dq0Y002679@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> Message-ID: <3DE629EC-628F-4F61-BEF2-BAB012FF32B1@bsdimp.com> > On Apr 11, 2015, at 12:39 AM, Doug McIlroy wrote: > > "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: > In FreeBSD there are two files /usr/share/dict/web2 and > /usr/share/dict/web2a, suggesting that they're Webster. web2 sounds > like the words file, while web2a apparently consists of compounds. > web2 doesn't contain Ritchie or McIlroy, though it does contain > "organizationally". The oldest entry in the svn history is: > > r1638 | rgrimes | 1994-05-31 05:09:18 +1000 (Tue, 31 May 1994) | 2 lines > > BSD 4.4 Lite Share Sources > > > Those files are Webster's Unabridged. They were derived from > a tape produced by the army and distributed without restrictions. > The provenance is more fully described at puzzlers.org; burrow > down their file tree from "Solving Tools of the NPL" to "The NPL > Wordlists" and "Our Wordlists" to "Doug McIlroy's Wordlists" More importantly, it was from Websters 1913 edition, which had passed from copyright protection at the time it was produced. There’s several words in it that have shifted in accepted spelling since that edition which I noticed when a spelling program flagged the now-correct spelling years ago… There were other word lists floating around the Internet in the 80’s that one could obtain with some effort that differed. I may have been on a system once that had both lists. There’s about 30 words that are different, and about 200 words in that other file not in web2. The system I know that had this word list on it has been turned off for 20 years now, so I can’t easily check these numbers. I assume other file was the file talked about as being licensed to Bell Labs… Warner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 842 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From reed at reedmedia.net Sun Apr 12 01:37:52 2015 From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:37:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TUHS] Thompson at Berkeley on an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20150411044528.GN27709@eureka.lemis.com> References: <201504101837.t3AIbPcI011217@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu> <20150411044528.GN27709@eureka.lemis.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Apr 2015, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > In FreeBSD there are two files /usr/share/dict/web2 and > /usr/share/dict/web2a, suggesting that they're Webster. web2 sounds > like the words file, while web2a apparently consists of compounds. > web2 doesn't contain Ritchie or McIlroy, though it does contain > "organizationally". The oldest entry in the svn history is: > > r1638 | rgrimes | 1994-05-31 05:09:18 +1000 (Tue, 31 May 1994) | 2 lines > > BSD 4.4 Lite Share Sources > > I don't have sccs, so I can't check the origins of that file. > > Comments? There is no existing SCCS history for those two files. But you can see the background about it in the README from the SCCS. http://svnweb.freebsd.org/csrg/share/dict/README?revision=49371&view=markup (Also in the later FreeBSD README too.) The web2 files were first introduced in 4.3BSD as documented in the changes documentation (between the 4.2BSD distribution of July 1983 and the 4.3 revision in 1986) 4.3BSD's usr/doc/smm/12.uchanges/7.t (but I don't see this in the SCCS history). We only have the complete operating system as of 3BSD and later and they include "words" file from 32V. It doesn't have "Kernighan", "McIlroy", nor "organizationally". The version continued from 32V is http://svnweb.freebsd.org/csrg/share/dict/words?view=log From slapinid at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 14:01:57 2015 From: slapinid at gmail.com (Sergey Lapin) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 07:01:57 +0300 Subject: [TUHS] Project Athena archive Message-ID: Hi, all! Is there some archives of project Athena? I'd like to see how it was back then... Thanks, S. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Mon Apr 20 22:29:36 2015 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TUHS] Project Athena archive Message-ID: <20150420122936.301D718C0EA@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Sergey Lapin > Is there some archives of project Athena? > I'd like to see how it was back then... There is an _very_ extensive online archive of stuff here: http://web.mit.edu/afs/ and what you're looking for might be in there _somewhere_. If not, I know some people I can ask (I never used it myself). But, if so, a bit more detail? Athena was huge, presumably you don't want all the students' files! But just the operating system? (IIRC it was initially mostly 4.3BSD, with some minor extensions.) Or the tools and applications they wrote as well? (E.g. X-Windows, IIRC, came from Athena.) Most of that does seem to be in that archive. Noel From treese at acm.org Sat Apr 25 00:41:25 2015 From: treese at acm.org (Win Treese) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:41:25 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Project Athena archive In-Reply-To: <20150420122936.301D718C0EA@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20150420122936.301D718C0EA@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: > On Apr 20, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > >> From: Sergey Lapin > >> Is there some archives of project Athena? >> I'd like to see how it was back then... > > There is an _very_ extensive online archive of stuff here: > > http://web.mit.edu/afs/ > > and what you're looking for might be in there _somewhere_. I don’t have much in the way of archives, but I worked there from 1984 to 1988. The best set of technical papers was the set presented at the Winter 1988 USENIX Conference in Dallas (disclaimer: I wrote one of them), and I probably have some PDFs of them stashed away. Those included papers about the X Window System, the changes to 4.3BSD, the Kerberos authentication system, the Hesiod name service, the Zephyr notification system, and the Moira service management system. There was also a paper on the Online Consulting system that (I think) appeared later. Also, the Associate Director of Athena from Digital Equipment, George Champine, wrote a book called "MIT Project Athena: Model for Distributed Campus Computing”. I’d be happy to answer any questions about the work at Athena from that time. Best, Win Treese treese at acm.org