From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 07:14:40 2012 From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 16:14:40 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] man.cat-v.org Message-ID: I ran across this web site, which conveniently hosts man pages for a number of bell labs operating systems. Does anyone have the man pages for 9th or 10th edition that you could please share? http://man.cat-v.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norman at oclsc.org Wed Apr 4 10:06:50 2012 From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TUHS] man.cat-v.org Message-ID: <1333498030.27060.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> I ran across this web site, which conveniently hosts man pages for a number of bell labs operating systems. Does anyone have the man pages for 9th or 10th edition that you could please share? That's problematic. Neither the limited-release V8 tape, the even-more-limited V9 (I'm not sure there even was a single such release, maybe we just sent out a few snapshots), nor the never-really-sent-to-anyone 10th Edition system has ever, so far as I know, escaped its original restrictive licensing. That includes the manual pages as well as the software proper. 10/e is even tricker, because it was published as a book; the ordinary book copyright on the contents may apply. And since all that stuff is 20 years or more, and several corporate reorgs/splits/buyouts, in the past, it may be very hard to find anyone who will agree that the stuff is no longer of any commercial value (the software all long since outdated, the printed book long out of print). Warren and Dennis and I talked about this many years ago. As I recall, we concluded that if we could get at least one of AT&T, Lucent, or the then-believed-owner of the UNIX commercial intellectual property to say it was OK, the others would likely go along; Warren had at the time a good contact with the latter entity; but said entity was still settling down after a buyout, so it seemed wisest to wait a few months before pushing for anything more. Alas, said entity was Caldera, which had just bought up The Santa Cruz Operation. Before a few months had passed, they had rebranded themselves as The SCO Group and shifted their primary business from technology development to pursuing untenable legal claims. I've no idea where one would start these days even to find the Gordian knot, let alone to cut it. Norman Wilson Toronto ON (who wrote some of them there manual pages, and some of the software they describe too, all a long time ago in a hill atop a swamp far far away) Email secured by Check Point From tim.newsham at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 11:45:18 2012 From: tim.newsham at gmail.com (Tim Newsham) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:45:18 -1000 Subject: [TUHS] man.cat-v.org In-Reply-To: <1333498030.27060.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> References: <1333498030.27060.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> Message-ID: > Norman Wilson > Toronto ON > (who wrote some of them there manual pages, and > some of the software they describe too, all a long > time ago in a hill atop a swamp far far away) Thank you! -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 01:59:37 2012 From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 10:59:37 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] RetroBSD Message-ID: 2.11 BSD ported to a mips-based microcontroller: http://retrobsd.org/ http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/unix-on-pic32-meet-retrobsd-for-duinomite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reed at reedmedia.net Thu Apr 19 07:08:56 2012 From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:08:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? Message-ID: Does anyone have installation instructions (with binary distribution) or a ready-to-use image for an historical 4.4BSD (encumbered or -Lite plus needed parts or -Lite2) with gxemul, tme, or other emulator? Or any login shell available? (For my tests, I want to use the real thing instead of a *BSD from the time of the 4.4BSD-lite merge.) Thanks From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 20 04:54:05 2012 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:54:05 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:08:56 -0500 (CDT) "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > Does anyone have installation instructions (with binary distribution) or > a ready-to-use image for an historical 4.4BSD (encumbered or -Lite plus > needed parts or -Lite2) with gxemul, tme, or other emulator? I can't remember exactely. Its been some years, but I did somthing like the folowing to get 4.4BSD-Lite on a HP9000-433t instaled: Boot NetBSD diskless. (Must have been in the 1.4 to 1.6 days.) disklabel sd0 newfs /dev/rsd0a mount /dev/sd0a /mnt cd /mnt tar xzf /nfsroot/4.4BSD-dist.tar.gz /mnt/usr/mdec/installboot or somthing like this. I.e. basicly I did a complete manual OS install using NetBSD as the install environement and 4.4BSD as the distribution source. Maybe I used something like http://unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru/4BSD/Distributions/4.4BSD-Alpha/rootdump.gz as the initial disk contence. Can't remember. The resulting disk was bootable, but the old 4.4BSD gradualy damaged the file system due to differences in the NetBSD ffs or disklabel layout. But it did run long enough to do about the same procedure as above to a second disk. As that disk was completely instaled with the old 4.4BSD stuff it did run well and without problems. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} From tim.newsham at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 05:22:58 2012 From: tim.newsham at gmail.com (Tim Newsham) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:22:58 -1000 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: perhaps after doing netbsd -> 44bsd you should have done another 44bsd bootstrapped -> 44bsd native install. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:08:56 -0500 (CDT) > "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > >> Does anyone have installation instructions (with binary distribution) or >> a ready-to-use image for an historical 4.4BSD (encumbered or -Lite plus >> needed parts or -Lite2) with gxemul, tme, or other emulator? > I can't remember exactely. Its been some years, but I did somthing like > the folowing to get 4.4BSD-Lite on a HP9000-433t instaled: > Boot NetBSD diskless. (Must have been in the 1.4 to 1.6 days.) > disklabel sd0 > newfs /dev/rsd0a > mount /dev/sd0a /mnt > cd /mnt > tar xzf /nfsroot/4.4BSD-dist.tar.gz > /mnt/usr/mdec/installboot or somthing like this. > > I.e. basicly I did a complete manual OS install using NetBSD as the > install environement and 4.4BSD as the distribution source. > > Maybe I used something like > http://unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru/4BSD/Distributions/4.4BSD-Alpha/rootdump.gz > as the initial disk contence. Can't remember. > > The resulting disk was bootable, but the old 4.4BSD gradualy damaged > the file system due to differences in the NetBSD ffs or disklabel > layout. But it did run long enough to do about the same procedure as > above to a second disk. As that disk was completely instaled with the > old 4.4BSD stuff it did run well and without problems. > -- > > > \end{Jochen} > > \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 20 05:50:30 2012 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 21:50:30 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:22:58 -1000 Tim Newsham wrote: > perhaps after doing netbsd -> 44bsd you should have done another > 44bsd bootstrapped -> 44bsd native install. Ahhhmmmm. ??? That was what I did: I used a 4.4BSD, bootstraped by NetBSD, to bootstrap 4.4BSD. This resulted in a natively instaled 4.4BSD that run well. But it must be about 10 years ago when I did this. So I can't give exact details. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} From tim.newsham at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 06:37:25 2012 From: tim.newsham at gmail.com (Tim Newsham) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:37:25 -1000 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: I mean that after you used netbsd to create and install 44bsd, you should have used the resulting 44bsd to create and install a new 44bsd system. Then it would have been a FFS created by 44bsd, not one created by netbsd... or am I misunderstanding something? On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:22:58 -1000 > Tim Newsham wrote: > >> perhaps after doing netbsd -> 44bsd you should have done another >> 44bsd bootstrapped -> 44bsd native  install. > Ahhhmmmm. ??? That was what I did: I used a 4.4BSD, bootstraped by > NetBSD, to bootstrap 4.4BSD. This resulted in a natively instaled > 4.4BSD that run well. But it must be about 10 years ago when I did > this. So I can't give exact details. > -- > > > \end{Jochen} > > \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 20 07:07:24 2012 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:07:24 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:37:25 -1000 Tim Newsham wrote: > I mean that after you used netbsd to create > and install 44bsd, you should have used the resulting > 44bsd to create and install a new 44bsd system. > Then it would have been a FFS created by 44bsd, > not one created by netbsd... > or am I misunderstanding something? Obviously yes. :-) I did exactely what you describe: I used NetBSD to install the first 4.4BSD. Then I booted this first 4.4BSD and used the first 4.4BSD to install the second 4.4BSD. The second 4.4BSD was OK. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} From downing.nick at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 13:06:35 2012 From: downing.nick at gmail.com (Nick Downing) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of 4.4BSDLite? Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else? cheers, Nick On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 23:07 +0200, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:37:25 -1000 > Tim Newsham wrote: > > > I mean that after you used netbsd to create > > and install 44bsd, you should have used the resulting > > 44bsd to create and install a new 44bsd system. > > Then it would have been a FFS created by 44bsd, > > not one created by netbsd... > > or am I misunderstanding something? > Obviously yes. :-) > I did exactely what you describe: > I used NetBSD to install the first 4.4BSD. > Then I booted this first 4.4BSD and used the first 4.4BSD to install > the second 4.4BSD. The second 4.4BSD was OK. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 20 16:34:27 2012 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 08:34:27 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> Message-ID: <20120420083427.11d4bfb8.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000 Nick Downing wrote: > Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of > 4.4BSDLite? Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else? Most likely I used 4.4BSD-Lite2. -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} From downing.nick at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 17:22:41 2012 From: downing.nick at gmail.com (Nick Downing) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 17:22:41 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <20120420083427.11d4bfb8.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> <20120420083427.11d4bfb8.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1334906561.3249.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> OK, I hadn't been aware of the significance of the 2 in 4.4BSD-Lite2, so I understand it contains a CSRG version of the startup code, etc that was originally from AT&T and was left out of 4.4BSD-Lite? Is it anything to do with Jolitz's work on 386BSD? Does it have anything else? Searching threw up a few results on multiprocessor locking so maybe it contains additional features as well as just the missing code? cheers, Nick On Fri, 2012-04-20 at 08:34 +0200, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000 > Nick Downing wrote: > > > Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of > > 4.4BSDLite? Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else? > Most likely I used 4.4BSD-Lite2. From reed at reedmedia.net Sat Apr 21 02:56:32 2012 From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:56:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <1334906561.3249.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> <20120420083427.11d4bfb8.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <1334906561.3249.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Nick Downing wrote: > OK, I hadn't been aware of the significance of the 2 in 4.4BSD-Lite2, so > I understand it contains a CSRG version of the startup code, etc that > was originally from AT&T and was left out of 4.4BSD-Lite? Is it > anything to do with Jolitz's work on 386BSD? Does it have anything > else? Searching threw up a few results on multiprocessor locking so > maybe it contains additional features as well as just the missing code? > cheers, Nick It doesn't appear to include the needed code. From looking at huge diff, I don't see any additions identified from Jolitz/Telemuse/386BSD. (For example, Lite already had Jolitz i386 code and Lite2 only had minimal changes to the code.) I quote from Cover.rel2 document for Lite2: ``It will not be possible to compile or run this software without a pre-existing system that is already installed and running. In addition, the distribution does not include sources for a complete system. It includes source code and manual pages for the C library, approximately 90% of the utilities distributed as part of 4.4BSD, and most of the kernel (the same subsystems that were deleted in Net/2 are still missing in 4.4BSD-Lite Release 2 (support for executing files, doing physical I/O, managing the buffer cache, handling process tracing, terminal character I/O, and doing accounting).'' The diff is huge. Lite2 has many changes: ``includes the copy editing work done for the Usenix/O'Reilly manuals as well as numerous bug fixes and enhancements that have been accumulated in the year since the release of 4.4BSD-Lite. Of particular interest are the changes needed to port the system to 64-bit architectures, important security enhancements to TCP/IP, and much improved functionality for the union and log-structured filesystems.'' (See http://mail-index.netbsd.org/current-users/1995/03/23/0008.html or the Cover.rel2 document.) I think is also incorporates many changes already done by BSDI, NetBSD, and FreeBSD. By the way, the TUHS page at http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.4BSD lists some files removed to create Lite. Actually per filenames, only the sysv_shm.c and shm.h and cpio.c files were removed. (cpio replaced with pax.) All were modified. (That TUHS page also has two mistakes: lists /sys/sys/buf.h twice and misspells /sys/ufs/inode.h as indode.h.) The Restricted Files also listed: sys/kern/kern_physio.c, sys/kern/vfs_bio.c, and sys/sys/tty.h and they are still included in Lite. Probably because files were not included in historical AT&T code, because newer USL code did include them, lots rewritten and so if any code was reused it became insignificant and was agreed on. vfs_bio.c was mentioned in a declaration stating is was based on published pseudo-code. Where is the actual list of files missing in Lite (that are in Encumbered)? From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Apr 21 06:34:14 2012 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 22:34:14 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell? In-Reply-To: <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> References: <20120419205405.f0b3627e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419215030.c116bf2c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20120419230724.8144b348.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <1334891195.6852.2.camel@mary.home.gateway> Message-ID: <20120420223414.b0646896.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000 Nick Downing wrote: > Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of > 4.4BSDLite? Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else? I thik I used some distribution from the CSRG archived CDs. Sorry. I really can't remember. It was 10 years ago. FWIW: I booted the machine and it says: $ uname -a 4.4BSD krumm.dinner41.de 4.4BSD-Lite 4.4BSD-Lite #166: Tue Jun 14 12:26:26 PDT 1994 mkm at vangogh.CS.Berkeley.EDU:/usr/src/sys/compile/HP300 hp300 -- \end{Jochen} \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}