From tfb at tfeb.org Sat Feb 13 03:03:14 2010 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:03:14 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Backup software (was: Irwin 285) In-Reply-To: <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> References: <20100121203655.GH25687@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20100121204449.92D7640E8@lod.com> <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> Message-ID: On 28 Jan 2010, at 20:27, Brad Spencer wrote: > I don't know how far this goes, if it is just NetBSD, or something > inherent to all 4.4BSD derived systems. Sun's ufsdump (which is dump really) seems to be x86/SPARC portable at least. I'm not sure it always was though. _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From grog at lemis.com Mon Feb 15 11:19:14 2010 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:19:14 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] dump(8) compatibility (was: Backup software (was: Irwin 285)) In-Reply-To: <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> References: <20100121203655.GH25687@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20100121204449.92D7640E8@lod.com> <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> Message-ID: <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> On Thursday, 28 January 2010 at 15:27:11 -0500, Brad Spencer wrote: > > On Thursday, 21 January 2010 at 12:44:49 -0800, Corey Lindsly wrote: >> >>> Sure. I know. Big SATA drives are cheap over here as well, like >>> 1.5T for 110 EURO or somesuch. I just happen to own a LTO3 and >>> enough tapes already, so the economics are not the issue. Just need >>> to have a proper piece of open source backup software that runs on >>> FreeBSD. >> >> And what, precisely, is the problem with using dump? >> It will span multiple tapes. > > dump is non-portable. In general, you can only restore to the same > kind of system as you write to. > > Not entirely true... dump and restore in NetBSD seems to be portable > among NetBSD systems at least. > > I don't know how far this goes, if it is just NetBSD, or something > inherent to all 4.4BSD derived systems. I've just tried to list a FreeBSD 7.2 dump on NetBSD 5.0.1: Extract directories from tape Mangled directory: reclen less than DIRSIZ (12 < 16) (many repetitions) Mangled directory: reclen less than DIRSIZ (12 < 16) . is not on the tape Root directory is not on tape abort? [yn] y Interestingly, FreeBSD restore can understand the NetBSD dump. But it's not even backwards compatible between major releases of FreeBSD even, so this might be the same issue as with FreeBSD. Either way, I don't think it's a good idea to count on it for NetBSD in the future. Greg -- Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From neozeed at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 11:24:16 2010 From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:24:16 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] dump(8) compatibility (was: Backup software (was: Irwin 285)) In-Reply-To: <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> References: <20100121203655.GH25687@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20100121204449.92D7640E8@lod.com> <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: <46b366131002141724h6df51264rafed91134b60a26e@mail.gmail.com> I'll never understand why software vendors think its a great idea to break stuff like backup/restore programs.... It's going to be more & more of a PITA with that sarbanes oxley compliance in the states... Hell we had NT 3.5 machines & a VAX in 2003... I'd dread for anyone needing anything from those with any legal ramifications... The VAX fried, and the old NT tapes were lost in a hurricane..... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From imp at bsdimp.com Mon Feb 15 11:30:08 2010 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:30:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [TUHS] dump(8) compatibility In-Reply-To: <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> References: <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20100214.183008.635519104763620496.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20100215011914.GZ62998 at dereel.lemis.com> "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" writes: : On Thursday, 28 January 2010 at 15:27:11 -0500, Brad Spencer wrote: : > : > On Thursday, 21 January 2010 at 12:44:49 -0800, Corey Lindsly wrote: : >> : >>> Sure. I know. Big SATA drives are cheap over here as well, like : >>> 1.5T for 110 EURO or somesuch. I just happen to own a LTO3 and : >>> enough tapes already, so the economics are not the issue. Just need : >>> to have a proper piece of open source backup software that runs on : >>> FreeBSD. : >> : >> And what, precisely, is the problem with using dump? : >> It will span multiple tapes. : > : > dump is non-portable. In general, you can only restore to the same : > kind of system as you write to. : > : > Not entirely true... dump and restore in NetBSD seems to be portable : > among NetBSD systems at least. : > : > I don't know how far this goes, if it is just NetBSD, or something : > inherent to all 4.4BSD derived systems. : : I've just tried to list a FreeBSD 7.2 dump on NetBSD 5.0.1: : : Extract directories from tape : Mangled directory: reclen less than DIRSIZ (12 < 16) : (many repetitions) : Mangled directory: reclen less than DIRSIZ (12 < 16) : . is not on the tape : Root directory is not on tape : abort? [yn] y : : Interestingly, FreeBSD restore can understand the NetBSD dump. But : it's not even backwards compatible between major releases of FreeBSD : even, so this might be the same issue as with FreeBSD. Either way, I : don't think it's a good idea to count on it for NetBSD in the future. Actually, dump *IS* compatible between major releases of FreeBSD. The problem is that dump tapes from FreeBSD 1.x and 2.x (and 4.3BSD, 4.4BSD and early SunOS) are no longer restoreable because the code that restored the old-style ufs1 layout was removed somewhere around FreeBSD 4.x or 5.x. It used to be the case that dump was completely interchangeable between the different BSDs, but software drift has rendered that not the case anymore. Warner _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From lm at bitmover.com Mon Feb 15 12:27:42 2010 From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:27:42 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] dump(8) compatibility In-Reply-To: <20100214.183008.635519104763620496.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> <20100214.183008.635519104763620496.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20100215022742.GA29101@bitmover.com> > It used to be the case that dump was completely interchangeable > between the different BSDs, but software drift has rendered that not > the case anymore. Which is why we (BitKeeper guys) don't even trust cpio/tar/etc. Wrote our own, works everywhere including windows. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From imp at bsdimp.com Mon Feb 15 15:05:12 2010 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:05:12 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] dump(8) compatibility In-Reply-To: <20100215022742.GA29101@bitmover.com> References: <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> <20100214.183008.635519104763620496.imp@bsdimp.com> <20100215022742.GA29101@bitmover.com> Message-ID: Tar and cpio at least have a standard, well understood format. Dump was always only defined by the source. Warner On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: >> It used to be the case that dump was completely interchangeable >> between the different BSDs, but software drift has rendered that not >> the case anymore. > > Which is why we (BitKeeper guys) don't even trust cpio/tar/etc. > Wrote our > own, works everywhere including windows. > -- > --- > Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com > > _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From neozeed at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 15:18:12 2010 From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:18:12 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] dump(8) compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <20100122003610.GB3623@dereel.lemis.com> <201001282027.o0SKRBIs001465@anduin.eldar.org> <20100215011914.GZ62998@dereel.lemis.com> <20100214.183008.635519104763620496.imp@bsdimp.com> <20100215022742.GA29101@bitmover.com> Message-ID: <46b366131002142118p4157cd7m6bc5e171692aae3@mail.gmail.com> reminds me of the tar changes with the advent of gnutar... boy have I had a lot of fun transporting files to find out when extracting it creates the directories as files..... On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:05 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > Tar and cpio at least have a standard, well understood format. Dump was > always only defined by the source. > > Warner > > > > On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > > It used to be the case that dump was completely interchangeable >>> between the different BSDs, but software drift has rendered that not >>> the case anymore. >>> >> >> Which is why we (BitKeeper guys) don't even trust cpio/tar/etc. Wrote our >> own, works everywhere including windows. >> -- >> --- >> Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com >> http://www.bitkeeper.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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