From billc_2 at charter.net Tue Apr 6 20:30:01 2004 From: billc_2 at charter.net (Bill Cunningham) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:30:01 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <000901c41bc2$1ffb8840$f3529e18@a> I was looking through the old archives at the old UNIX Dennis Ritchie submitted. I would like to know how to boot this. I can't seem to compile the PDP emulator(s) with djgpp or a non-linux system. I can with my linux. Dennis said this version of unix was compiled with assembly, then into C if I'm not mistaken. Now the PDPs they were the machines with no monitors just printer tty type output correct? Bill From kstailey at yahoo.com Tue Apr 6 23:16:03 2004 From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <000901c41bc2$1ffb8840$f3529e18@a> Message-ID: <20040406131603.85174.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Cunningham wrote: > I was looking through the old archives at the old UNIX Dennis Ritchie > submitted. I would like to know how to boot this. I can't seem to compile > the PDP emulator(s) with djgpp or a non-linux system. Look on this page for the link that says "Windows executables" http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > I can with my linux. > Dennis said this version of unix was compiled with assembly, then into C if > I'm not mistaken. You are mistaken. It's the other way around. Traditional C compilers generate assembly which is assembled into machine code object files which are linked into an executable. > Now the PDPs they were the machines with no monitors just > printer tty type output correct? Depends on the PDP you are talking about. The term "Programmed Data Processor" refers to a large number of different systems. Some are a small as PeeCees and others filled entire rooms. > Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From akito_fujita at mvg.biglobe.ne.jp Tue Apr 6 23:44:17 2004 From: akito_fujita at mvg.biglobe.ne.jp (Akito Fujita) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:44:17 +0900 (JST) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <000901c41bc2$1ffb8840$f3529e18@a> References: <000901c41bc2$1ffb8840$f3529e18@a> Message-ID: <20040406.224417.74737577.akito_fujita@mvg.biglobe.ne.jp> From: "Bill Cunningham" Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:30:01 -0400 > I was looking through the old archives at the old UNIX Dennis Ritchie > submitted. I would like to know how to boot this. I can't seem to compile > the PDP emulator(s) with djgpp or a non-linux system. I can with my linux. > Dennis said this version of unix was compiled with assembly, then into C if > I'm not mistaken. Now the PDPs they were the machines with no monitors just > printer tty type output correct? > > Bill see http://www.tribug.org/pub/tuhs/PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V6enb/ it will help you. - Akito From james at peacemax.org Wed Apr 7 03:41:04 2004 From: james at peacemax.org (J.D.) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:41:04 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] what is the progress on porting 32V to x86 platform Message-ID: <4072EBB0.7090903@peacemax.org> To all concerned, I was wondering what progress has been made in porting 32V to the x86 platform. I would like to keep track of it's development. Maybe even dedicate a web site just for 32V/32I on x86. I'm not certain on how to setup a repository, but I'm willing to learn as I go. I have a DSL connection. 3 dedicated IP addresses (1 DNS, 1 mail server, 1 web server). The web server has 80Gb of storage space and is running Slackware Linux 9.1. I currently host my own web site: http://www.peacemax.org on the web server. I would really like to see a free / low cost UNIX or UNIX-like OS for the x86 platform come to fruition without the legal battles that Linux and BSD have had to deal with over the years. Thank you, James Falknor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4766 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Apr 7 08:37:52 2004 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <200404062237.i36MbqN03262@opihi.ucsd.edu> > From: "Bill Cunningham" > To: > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:30:01 -0400 > Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 > > I was looking through the old archives at the old UNIX Dennis Ritchie > submitted. I would like to know how to boot this. I can't seem to compile > the PDP emulator(s) with djgpp or a non-linux system. I can with my linux. See below for a session log showing booting 6th Ed Unix on a Linux system. > Dennis said this version of unix was compiled with assembly, then into C if > I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure that by 6th Ed the system was mostly C, with only a few assembly routines. > Now the PDPs they were the machines with no monitors just > printer tty type output correct? High-resolution bit-mapped graphics at any reasonable price came along a few years after 6th Ed. Unix. Character-cell CRT terminals that could display 72x12 up to 80x24 characters on a screen were available in 1975, but were pretty expensive. Instructions for booting "uv6swre" are contained in the file "simh_swre.txt". To make things easier for myself, I did the following: $ cp unix0_v6_rk.dsk rk0.dsk and so on for 1, 2, 3. This gives me copies of the distribution disks that I can work with without losing the originals. Then I made a startup file "run.conf" to contain the commands for the emulator. Here is the result of a very recent session: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Script started on Tue 06 Apr 2004 03:09:12 PM PDT helium3$ cat run.conf set cpu u18 set cpu 256k attach rk0 rk0.dsk attach rk1 rk1.dsk attach rk2 rk2.dsk attach rk3 rk3.dsk boot rk0 helium3$ pdp11 run.conf PDP-11 simulator V3.1-0 Disabling XQ @unix login: root # date Sat Aug 20 12:19:47 EDT 1994 # ls -l total 182 drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 1040 Jan 1 1970 bin drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 352 Jan 1 1970 dev drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 304 Aug 20 12:19 etc drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 336 Jan 1 1970 lib drwxr-xr-x 17 bin 272 Jan 1 1970 mnt drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 32 Jan 1 1970 mnt2 -rw-rw-rw- 1 root 28472 Aug 20 12:01 rkunix -rwxr-xr-x 1 bin 28636 Aug 20 11:38 rkunix.40 drwxrwxrwx 2 bin 144 Aug 20 12:14 tmp -rwxr-xr-x 1 bin 28472 Aug 20 12:01 unix drwxr-xr-x 13 bin 224 Aug 20 12:22 usr drwxr-xr-x 2 bin 32 Jan 1 1970 usr2 # stty speed 110 baud erase = '#'; kill = '@' even odd -nl echo -tabs cr1 # sync;sync # Simulation stopped, PC: 034316 (ADD #26,R2) sim> bye Goodbye helium3$ exit Script done on Tue 06 Apr 2004 03:10:09 PM PDT - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Notes: the simh command for emulating a Unibus PDP11 with 18-bit addressing is now "set cpu u18". In the line "@unix" the "@" is the prompt from the boot program, "unix" is your response to it. Root has no password. The disks are mounted rk1 on /usr rk2 on /usr/source rk3 on /mnt The default character erase and line kill characters shown by stty are not what anyone is used to these days. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Apr 7 09:17:56 2004 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <200404062317.i36NHu303434@opihi.ucsd.edu> > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Booting v6 > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:04:10 -0700 > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Booting v6 > thread-index: AcQcKECoV1Z8goZHTHydv0dtlVPxNwAANuHA > From: "Ian King" > To: "Carl Lowenstein" , , > > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively - is > available for legal purchase. I have both the published version and > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy. Me too, as they say. I did the bootleg photocopying myself. > There was at least one card that would drive a vector display, like the > old Tektronix storage tube devices, but most I/O was terminal based. I > have some old ADM3a terminals that folks often mistake for early iMacs - > they ask me which processor they use. :-) The first 11/20 I used had a Tektronix 4002 Graphics terminal with it. This was a storage tube, vector addressable. But it also had a complete ASCII terminal emulator built in, with diode matrix character generator ROMs. Also the best keyboard I ever used, with magnetically-operated reed switches. The Tek terminal used a specially modified KL11 terminal interface, which did serial communication to the CPU at something like 100k characters/sec. This made the hard-copy TTY-based editor really easy to use, because it could repaint the whole screen in a fraction of a second. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu From lars at nocrew.org Wed Apr 7 15:31:30 2004 From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff) Date: 07 Apr 2004 07:31:30 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <200404062317.i36NHu303434@opihi.ucsd.edu> References: <200404062317.i36NHu303434@opihi.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <85isgcl5fx.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Carl Lowenstein writes: > > From: "Ian King" > > > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively - is > > available for legal purchase. I have both the published version and > > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy. > Me too, as they say. I did the bootleg photocopying myself. Is it still good reading? -- Lars Brinkhoff, Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, HTTP Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ From rwells at impaq.co.uk Wed Apr 7 20:53:26 2004 From: rwells at impaq.co.uk (Wells, Richard) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:53:26 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <63D9641DAC5E4642BA63322DE7B7137B2E0066@andromeda.uk.impaq.corp> IMHO it's very good reading / learning. I couldn't buy the book when I last tried (about a year ago) - I think it was out of print.. I did manage to find it all on the web though. Richard Wells -----Original Message----- From: Lars Brinkhoff [mailto:lars at nocrew.org] Sent: 07 April 2004 06:32 To: Carl Lowenstein Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 Carl Lowenstein writes: > > From: "Ian King" > > > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively - is > > available for legal purchase. I have both the published version and > > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy. > Me too, as they say. I did the bootleg photocopying myself. Is it still good reading? -- Lars Brinkhoff, Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, HTTP Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu Thu Apr 8 02:04:01 2004 From: luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu (Andru Luvisi) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <85isgcl5fx.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Message-ID: On 7 Apr 2004, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: [snip] > Is it still good reading? [snip] Absolutely fabulous reading! The best part, in my opinion, is that when he is walking you through the code of a function and you come to another function call, he gives you a short description (sometimes just a couple of words, sometimes a few sentences) of what that other function does so you can just keep on reading the one you're in. Since most time-space tradeoffs were made in favor of saving space and spending time (64k limit for all kernel code and data on the 11/40), the code is fairly straight forward (for example, linear searches instead of hash tables) once you grok the magic of process switching and how system calls work, which Lions helps with a lot. He also gives a brief introduction to enough PDP-11 assembly and architecture, and C, to understand the magic. I found it to be a very pleasant read a few years ago and I plan to read it again one of these days. Andru -- Andru Luvisi Quote Of The Moment: Heisenberg may have been here. From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Thu Apr 8 04:22:54 2004 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <200404071822.i37IMsW04765@opihi.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:53:26 +0100 > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Booting v6 > Thread-Index: AcQcYq8V+wOYWKxXRAqhjHttR6C44gAJhvuw > From: "Wells, Richard" > To: "Lars Brinkhoff" > > IMHO it's very good reading / learning. > > I couldn't buy the book when I last tried (about a year ago) - I think > it was out of print.. I did manage to find it all on the web though. > > Richard Wells > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lars Brinkhoff [mailto:lars at nocrew.org] > Sent: 07 April 2004 06:32 > To: Carl Lowenstein > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 > > Carl Lowenstein writes: > > > From: "Ian King" > > > > > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively - > is > > > available for legal purchase. I have both the published version and > > > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy. > > Me too, as they say. I did the bootleg photocopying myself. > > Is it still good reading? It was last time I looked. Today I seem to have misplaced my copy. Just checked AddAll book search, the reprint of the Lions book has become a rare collectable, and is selling for about $100. Oh, well, somebody bid a VT100 up to $355 yesterday. carl From luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu Thu Apr 8 04:55:06 2004 From: luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu (Andru Luvisi) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <200404071822.i37IMsW04765@opihi.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: Some people mentioned it being out of print. I was wondering, has anyone tried purchasing it from http://www.peer-to-peer.com/catalog/opsrc/lions.html They don't seem to have any indication on the web site that it is out of print, and they have a link to it from their home page (http://www.peer-to-peer.com/). Andru -- Andru Luvisi Quote Of The Moment: "Taking the envelope and pencil in his otherwise empty hands, the medium feels it, stares into space, grunts, foams at the mouth, and otherwise becomes very psychic." - Theodore Annemann From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Apr 8 04:42:39 2004 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: References: <200404071822.i37IMsW04765@opihi.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <20040407.124239.32175798.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: Andru Luvisi writes: : Some people mentioned it being out of print. I was wondering, has anyone : tried purchasing it from : : http://www.peer-to-peer.com/catalog/opsrc/lions.html : : They don't seem to have any indication on the web site that it is out of : print, and they have a link to it from their home page : (http://www.peer-to-peer.com/). it was out of print for a while, but was republished a few years ago... I have both copies and can tell you that the republished version is true to the original. Warner From patv at monmouth.com Thu Apr 8 10:13:16 2004 From: patv at monmouth.com (Pat Villani) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:13:16 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] what is the progress on porting 32V to x86 platform In-Reply-To: <4072EBB0.7090903@peacemax.org> References: <4072EBB0.7090903@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <4074991C.6080803@monmouth.com> Actually, not much since December. Unfortunately, work is getting in the way of having fun. I hope to be getting back to it again some time soon. Pat J.D. wrote: > To all concerned, > > I was wondering what progress has been made in porting 32V to the > x86 platform. > > I would like to keep track of it's development. Maybe even dedicate > a web site just for 32V/32I on x86. I'm not certain on how to setup a > repository, but I'm willing to learn as I go. > > I have a DSL connection. 3 dedicated IP addresses (1 DNS, 1 mail > server, 1 web server). The web server has 80Gb of storage space and is > running Slackware Linux 9.1. I currently host my own web site: > http://www.peacemax.org on the web server. > > I would really like to see a free / low cost UNIX or UNIX-like OS > for the x86 platform come to fruition without the legal battles that > Linux and BSD have had to deal with over the years. > > > Thank you, > James Falknor > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > From ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu Tue Apr 13 00:46:51 2004 From: ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them. They suggested I try used book web pages. There is a copy available on half.com as of this writing for around $100. Eric Wayte Sr. DBA Univ. of Central Florida ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Andru Luvisi wrote: > > Some people mentioned it being out of print. I was wondering, has anyone > tried purchasing it from > > http://www.peer-to-peer.com/catalog/opsrc/lions.html > From kstailey at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 04:38:43 2004 From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <20040412183843.89075.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/1999/11/30/lions/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 13 04:51:11 2004 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:11 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <20040412183843.89075.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c420bf$205e2660$6401a8c0@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. Outside of that, it's a very well written article. I'll probably end up searching Alibris, www.alibris.com for the books, or related ones. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Kenneth Stailey > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 2:39 PM > To: tuhs at tuhs.org > Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > > http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/1999/11/30/lions/ > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Tue Apr 13 08:29:36 2004 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:29:36 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com References: <000d01c420bf$205e2660$6401a8c0@who5> Message-ID: <001601c420dd$a343b040$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> > Hello from Gregg C Levine > An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I > haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the > article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here > goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the > book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other > fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. I'm not sure what discrepancy you are referring to - the article looked quite accurate to me. Which particular "other fellow" are you thinking of? From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 13 09:40:31 2004 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:40:31 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <001601c420dd$a343b040$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <002e01c420e7$8b84ffe0$6401a8c0@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. And yes, the rest of the article did look okay, around that. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Michael Davidson > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:30 PM > To: Gregg C Levine; 'Kenneth Stailey'; tuhs at tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > > An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I > > haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the > > article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here > > goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the > > book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other > > fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. > > I'm not sure what discrepancy you are referring to - the article looked > quite accurate to me. > > Which particular "other fellow" are you thinking of? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Tue Apr 13 10:01:26 2004 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:01:26 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <20040413000202.5CCA71F4F@minnie.tuhs.org> Hello from Gregg C Levine Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. Ken's name is on a number of interesting papers from the early days of UNIX, including the original one in CACM, but so far as I can remember he was never the official author or co-author of a UNIX book. You may be thinking of `The UNIX Programming Environment,' by Kernighan and Pike. I suppose those who don't know both Ken Thompson and Rob Pike might confuse them, especially since (I think) they both reside in the Bay Area now. It may help to know that Rob's nose comes nearer to a sharp point, and that Ken is a licensed pilot. They are certainly different people; I have seen them in the same room many times. Norman Wilson Toronto ON From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 13 10:19:56 2004 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:19:56 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <20040413000202.5CCA71F4F@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <003e01c420ed$0d178640$6401a8c0@who5> Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine I believe your right. And I am willing to concede the points regarding the two gentlemen in question. However, all of the documents I have seen within the past ten years regarding the birth, and history of UNIX, all have mentioned both Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie are mentioned. Complete with the appropriately selected story as well. I suspect however, that in that early paper, Ken Thompson is indeed mentioned, however the web page in question does not go into enough detail, as it should. And regarding the book, your right. I've got my copy of the C book across the room, and normally don't refer to it unless necessary. However, I would really like to have Dennis comment. Not that I doubt you, I don't. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Norman Wilson > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 8:01 PM > To: tuhs at tuhs.org > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in > titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. > > Ken's name is on a number of interesting papers from the early days of > UNIX, including the original one in CACM, but so far as I can remember > he was never the official author or co-author of a UNIX book. You may > be thinking of `The UNIX Programming Environment,' by Kernighan and Pike. > > I suppose those who don't know both Ken Thompson and Rob Pike might > confuse them, especially since (I think) they both reside in the Bay > Area now. It may help to know that Rob's nose comes nearer to a > sharp point, and that Ken is a licensed pilot. They are certainly > different people; I have seen them in the same room many times. > > Norman Wilson > Toronto ON > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Tue Apr 13 10:58:32 2004 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:58:32 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com References: <002e01c420e7$8b84ffe0$6401a8c0@who5> Message-ID: <003201c420f2$710146a0$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > creation of UNIX, Yes, I thought you might have been referring to Ken Thompson, but I wasn't sure. The Salon article refers to: "Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie, the two Bell Labs employees who created Unix and the C programming language" I suspect that the only real inaccuracy here is that (as both Dennis and Ken would be quick to point out) UNIX was the result of a collaborative effort involving more than just two people, but if one had to pick just two names then they would undoubtedly have to be Ritchie and Thompson ... ... and if Thompson isn't normally closely associated with the development of C it's worth remembering that without "B" there would have been no "C" ... http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/kbman.html From james at peacemax.org Tue Apr 13 11:36:17 2004 From: james at peacemax.org (J.D.) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:36:17 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] "Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition, with Source" Message-ID: <407B4411.9030506@peacemax.org> To all concerned, I decided to find out if the book were still available. Per Dan Doernberg at Peer-To-Peer Communications: >The "Lions' book" is temporarily out of stock; we expect to >have it available in approximately 2-3 months. > >Background--- Peer-to-Peer Communications is the original >publisher of "Lions' Commentary on Unix", but we sold the book >to Annabooks/RTC Group in 1999. RTC decided not to reprint it >when they ran out of stock, so we took the publishing rights >back and are now working to make reprint arrangements. > > >Sincerely, > > >Customer Service >Peer-to-Peer Communications Inc. >service at peer-to-peer.com Thank you, James Falknor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4766 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From kwall at kurtwerks.com Tue Apr 13 11:57:44 2004 From: kwall at kurtwerks.com (Kurt Wall) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:57:44 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] "Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition, with Source" In-Reply-To: <407B4411.9030506@peacemax.org> References: <407B4411.9030506@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <20040413015744.GE14895@kurtwerks.com> In a 8.0K blaze of typing glory, J.D. wrote: > To all concerned, > I decided to find out if the book were still available. > Per Dan Doernberg at Peer-To-Peer Communications: > > >The "Lions' book" is temporarily out of stock; we expect to > >have it available in approximately 2-3 months. > > > >Background--- Peer-to-Peer Communications is the original > >publisher of "Lions' Commentary on Unix", but we sold the book > >to Annabooks/RTC Group in 1999. RTC decided not to reprint it > >when they ran out of stock, so we took the publishing rights > >back and are now working to make reprint arrangements. This is the same story Peer-to-Peer gave me about two months ago when I enquired after a copy of Lions' Commentary. I hope they are able to arrange the reprint. FWIW, they offered to take a pre-order, which offer I declined because they were disappointingly vague about when the order would be filled. :-( Regards, Kurt -- The average income of the modern teenager is about 2 a.m. From dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com Tue Apr 13 13:35:46 2004 From: dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com (dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:35:46 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Re: Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <0a92de8522af0df0ed3961392286abca@plan9.bell-labs.com> A quick guide; but it doesn't distinguish Pike. He's probably the slimmest and shortest, and remains the least bearded the last time I saw him. From: dmr at alice.att.com (Dennis Ritchie) Subject: re: UNIX Message-ID: <11613 at alice.att.com> Date: 14 Nov 90 05:53:03 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ I read, > Looks like folks are now beginning to credit the > development of UNIX to Kernighan and Ritchie, but > I thought the principal investigators were > *Thompson* and Ritchie. Did something change? The differences between Kernighan Ritchie Thompson are real but very subtle. We all look alike (middle aged with scruffy graying beards). Note these distinctions: -- Kernighan is slimmest, Ritchie middlest, Thompson heaviest in body build -- Ritchie got contacts a couple of years ago and so is the only current non-glasses wearer -- Thompson wouldn't touch netnews with a pole, Kernighan secretly gets misc.invest and misc.taxes mailed to him, Ritchie reads it more than is good for him and occasionally contributes -- Ritchie is the only one who has met five people who have appeared on David Letterman (Penn, Teller, Rob Pike, Mayor Koch, and the guy who raised the biggest hog in Ohio) -- Kernighan has written ten times as much readable prose as has Ritchie, Ritchie ten times as much as Thompson. It's tempting to say that the reverse proportions hold for code, but in fact Kernighan and Ritchie are more nearly tied and Thompson wipes us both out. Dennis From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Tue Apr 13 15:36:13 2004 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <200404130536.i3D5aDZ13936@opihi.ucsd.edu> > From: "Gregg C Levine" > To: "'Kenneth Stailey'" , > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:11 -0400 > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I > haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the > article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here > goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the > book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other > fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. By "the other fellow" do you mean Ken Thompson? If so, you are far behind in your knowledge of Unix history. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Tue Apr 13 15:44:10 2004 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <200404130544.i3D5iA513959@opihi.ucsd.edu> > From: "Gregg C Levine" > To: "'Norman Wilson'" , > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:19:56 -0400 > > Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine > I believe your right. And I am willing to concede the points regarding > the two gentlemen in question. However, all of the documents I have > seen within the past ten years regarding the birth, and history of > UNIX, all have mentioned both Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie are > mentioned. Complete with the appropriately selected story as well. > > I suspect however, that in that early paper, Ken Thompson is indeed > mentioned, however the web page in question does not go into enough > detail, as it should. > > And regarding the book, your right. I've got my copy of the C book > across the room, and normally don't refer to it unless necessary. You know, Unix is not 100% identical to C. Before continuing this line of discussion, you really should find a copy of Bell System Technical Journal, July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2 where Ritchie and Thomson describe the design of Unix. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu From grog at lemis.com Tue Apr 13 17:20:32 2004 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:50:32 +0930 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <20040413000202.5CCA71F4F@minnie.tuhs.org> <002e01c420e7$8b84ffe0$6401a8c0@who5> <001601c420dd$a343b040$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> References: <20040413000202.5CCA71F4F@minnie.tuhs.org> <001601c420dd$a343b040$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> <002e01c420e7$8b84ffe0$6401a8c0@who5> <000d01c420bf$205e2660$6401a8c0@who5> <001601c420dd$a343b040$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20040413072032.GV29128@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Monday, 12 April 2004 at 15:29:36 -0700, Michael Davidson wrote: >> Hello from Gregg C Levine >> An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I >> haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the >> article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here >> goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the >> book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other >> fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. > > I'm not sure what discrepancy you are referring to - the article looked > quite accurate to me. > > Which particular "other fellow" are you thinking of? On Monday, 12 April 2004 at 19:40:31 -0400, Gregg C Levine wrote: > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > creation of UNIX, Not that I'm a great believer in religion, but this comes close to sacrilege. I would have thought that people on this forum (you, Gregg, certainly included) would have known that ken and dmr (to use their login names) are so much the basis of UNIX that up to and including the Sixth Edition the directory tree was divided into two directories named after them: === root at wantadilla (/dev/ttyp1) /home/grog 24 -> cd /src/UNIX/Sixth-Edition/ === root at wantadilla (/dev/ttyp1) /src/UNIX/Sixth-Edition 25 -> ls -l usr/sys/ total 1 -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 3016 Jul 18 1975 buf.h dr-xr-xr-x 2 grog wheel 512 Jul 19 1975 conf -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 916 May 14 1975 conf.h dr-xr-xr-x 2 grog wheel 512 Jul 18 1975 dmr -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 407 May 14 1975 file.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 949 May 14 1975 filsys.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 533 May 14 1975 ino.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 1693 Jul 18 1975 inode.h dr-xr-xr-x 2 grog wheel 512 Jul 18 1975 ken -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 58990 Jul 18 1975 lib1 -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 45578 Jul 18 1975 lib2 -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 2147 May 14 1975 param.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 1481 Jul 18 1975 proc.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 274 May 14 1975 reg.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 900 Jul 18 1975 run -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 533 Jul 18 1975 seg.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 1749 May 14 1975 systm.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 380 May 14 1975 text.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 2320 May 14 1975 tty.h -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 2842 Jul 18 1975 user.h === root at wantadilla (/dev/ttyp1) /src/UNIX/Sixth-Edition 26 -> "The other fellow" indeed! As dmr says, he wrote more code than he and Kernighan put together (though in this source tree their input is remarkably balanced). On Monday, 12 April 2004 at 20:01:26 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote: > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in > titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. > > Ken's name is on a number of interesting papers from the early days of > UNIX, including the original one in CACM, but so far as I can remember > he was never the official author or co-author of a UNIX book. You may > be thinking of `The UNIX Programming Environment,' by Kernighan and Pike. > > I suppose those who don't know both Ken Thompson and Rob Pike might > confuse them, especially since (I think) they both reside in the Bay > Area now. I've never seen ken without a beard, though there's a photo of him without one taken a very long time ago. I've never seen Rob Pike with a beard. > They are certainly different people; I have seen them in the same > room many times. Ah, the marvels of time-sharing! Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Tue Apr 13 18:35:23 2004 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:35:23 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] "Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition, with Source" In-Reply-To: <407B4411.9030506@peacemax.org> References: <407B4411.9030506@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <200404132035.23944.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Good to hear - though since I got my reprint back in 1997, I'm not lacking. On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:36, J.D. wrote: > To all concerned, > I decided to find out if the book were still available. > > Per Dan Doernberg at Peer-To-Peer Communications: > >The "Lions' book" is temporarily out of stock; we expect to > >have it available in approximately 2-3 months. > > > >Background--- Peer-to-Peer Communications is the original > >publisher of "Lions' Commentary on Unix", but we sold the book > >to Annabooks/RTC Group in 1999. RTC decided not to reprint it > >when they ran out of stock, so we took the publishing rights > >back and are now working to make reprint arrangements. > > > > > >Sincerely, > > > > > >Customer Service > >Peer-to-Peer Communications Inc. > >service at peer-to-peer.com > > Thank you, > James Falknor -- Wesley Parish * * * Clinersterton beademung - in all of love. RIP James Blish * * * Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 13 20:39:28 2004 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:39:28 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <200404130536.i3D5aDZ13936@opihi.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <004c01c42143$99963520$6401a8c0@who5> Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine Not quite Carl. More like behind schedule. When I got started in this, about a year earlier, or maybe more like two years earlier, the library where I did most of my research didn't have the copy of the Journal available that you thought of, in your next message. This one, Bell System Technical Journal, July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2. They claimed that they could not find it. Knowing what I know now about the way that library works, it only confirms that they were right. However its been on my schedule to find, since then. Probably this week, since you've brought it up. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Carl Lowenstein > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 1:36 AM > To: tuhs at tuhs.org > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > > > From: "Gregg C Levine" > > To: "'Kenneth Stailey'" , > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:11 -0400 > > > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > > An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I > > haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the > > article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here > > goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the > > book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other > > fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. > > By "the other fellow" do you mean Ken Thompson? > If so, you are far behind in your knowledge of Unix history. > > carl > -- > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > clowenst at ucsd.edu > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 13 20:41:54 2004 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:41:54 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <20040413072032.GV29128@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <004d01c42143$f05f0120$6401a8c0@who5> Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine Funny you should be bringing that into the subject, Greg! Every time I booted an image from the repository here, at TUHS, or directly from the home SIMH site, I didn't bother to check those features. I just managed to login, and do what prompted me to do that. The next time I do so, which should be this week, I'll certainly look for it. And I thought this would be a short thread. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey [mailto:grog at lemis.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:21 AM > To: Michael Davidson; Gregg C Levine; Norman Wilson > Cc: 'Kenneth Stailey'; tuhs at tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > > On Monday, 12 April 2004 at 15:29:36 -0700, Michael Davidson wrote: > >> Hello from Gregg C Levine > >> An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I > >> haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the > >> article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here > >> goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the > >> book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other > >> fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. > > > > I'm not sure what discrepancy you are referring to - the article looked > > quite accurate to me. > > > > Which particular "other fellow" are you thinking of? > > On Monday, 12 April 2004 at 19:40:31 -0400, Gregg C Levine wrote: > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > > creation of UNIX, > > Not that I'm a great believer in religion, but this comes close to > sacrilege. I would have thought that people on this forum (you, > Gregg, certainly included) would have known that ken and dmr (to use > their login names) are so much the basis of UNIX that up to and > including the Sixth Edition the directory tree was divided into two > directories named after them: > > === root at wantadilla (/dev/ttyp1) /home/grog 24 -> cd /src/UNIX/Sixth-Edition/ > === root at wantadilla (/dev/ttyp1) /src/UNIX/Sixth-Edition 25 -> ls -l usr/sys/ > total 1 > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 3016 Jul 18 1975 buf.h > dr-xr-xr-x 2 grog wheel 512 Jul 19 1975 conf > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 916 May 14 1975 conf.h > dr-xr-xr-x 2 grog wheel 512 Jul 18 1975 dmr > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 407 May 14 1975 file.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 949 May 14 1975 filsys.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 533 May 14 1975 ino.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 1693 Jul 18 1975 inode.h > dr-xr-xr-x 2 grog wheel 512 Jul 18 1975 ken > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 58990 Jul 18 1975 lib1 > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 45578 Jul 18 1975 lib2 > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 2147 May 14 1975 param.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 1481 Jul 18 1975 proc.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 274 May 14 1975 reg.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 900 Jul 18 1975 run > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 533 Jul 18 1975 seg.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 1749 May 14 1975 systm.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 380 May 14 1975 text.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 2320 May 14 1975 tty.h > -r--r--r-- 1 grog wheel 2842 Jul 18 1975 user.h > === root at wantadilla (/dev/ttyp1) /src/UNIX/Sixth-Edition 26 -> > > "The other fellow" indeed! As dmr says, he wrote more code than he > and Kernighan put together (though in this source tree their input is > remarkably balanced). > > On Monday, 12 April 2004 at 20:01:26 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote: > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > > creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in > > titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. > > > > Ken's name is on a number of interesting papers from the early days of > > UNIX, including the original one in CACM, but so far as I can remember > > he was never the official author or co-author of a UNIX book. You may > > be thinking of `The UNIX Programming Environment,' by Kernighan and Pike. > > > > I suppose those who don't know both Ken Thompson and Rob Pike might > > confuse them, especially since (I think) they both reside in the Bay > > Area now. > > I've never seen ken without a beard, though there's a photo of him > without one taken a very long time ago. I've never seen Rob Pike with > a beard. > > > They are certainly different people; I have seen them in the same > > room many times. > > Ah, the marvels of time-sharing! > > Greg > -- > Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. > Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. From Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de Tue Apr 13 21:33:06 2004 From: Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de (Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:33:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com In-Reply-To: <004c01c42143$99963520$6401a8c0@who5> Message-ID: Hi Gregg, On 13-Apr-2004 Gregg C Levine wrote: > [..] > Bell System Technical Journal, July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part > 2. They claimed that they could not find it. Knowing what I know now > about the way that library works, it only confirms that they were > right. However its been on my schedule to find, since then. Probably > this week, since you've brought it up. you can find many of the documents cited in this issue in the UNIX Programmer's Manual for the Seventh Edition, Volume 2B, which is included, for example, in the package http://telexx.mni.fh-giessen.de/PDP11-UNIX/unix-v7-3.tar.gz Regards, Hellwig From tuhs at rops.org Tue Apr 13 22:13:17 2004 From: tuhs at rops.org (Roger Willcocks) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:13:17 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <006b01c42150$b449eb20$dc32a8c0@barney> > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in > titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. > And yes, the rest of the article did look okay, around that. ...um... see http://www.bell-labs.com/news/1999/april/28/1.html: "Ritchie and Thompson Receive National Medal of Technology from President Clinton" -- Roger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kstailey at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 23:28:30 2004 From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] An Interview with John Lions Message-ID: <20040413132830.53364.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com> The PDF when viewed in acroread is rather obnoxious to my system, it turns off controls and the window manager frame and takes over the whole window but love that google cache. http://tinyurl.com/3x4ld __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From list-tuhs at cosmic.com Wed Apr 14 08:35:02 2004 From: list-tuhs at cosmic.com (Mirian Crzig Lennox) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:35:02 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 References: Message-ID: ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) writes: > I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them. They > suggested I try used book web pages. There is a copy available on > half.com as of this writing for around $100. Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) cheers, Mirian From grog at lemis.com Wed Apr 14 09:17:46 2004 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:47:46 +0930 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040413231746.GD79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 18:35:02 -0400, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote: > ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) writes: >> I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them. They >> suggested I try used book web pages. There is a copy available on >> half.com as of this writing for around $100. > > Wow. > > Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) Somewhere I had a TeX source file of it that went round alt.folklore.computers about ten years ago. I took a brief look yesterday but couldn't find it. If I try harder, there's a good chance that I will. Would anybody be interested? Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shoppa at trailing-edge.com Wed Apr 14 10:06:43 2004 From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:06:43 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> [Lions book] > Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand given the comments that came with the readme. Tim. From grog at lemis.com Wed Apr 14 10:16:25 2004 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:46:25 +0930 Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) In-Reply-To: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20040414001625.GH79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 20:06:43 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: > [Lions book] >> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) > > Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa > 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand > given the comments that came with the readme. Yes, that's the one I got. From memory, the subject was "Leo's notes" and it was uuencoded or some such. Strangely, not many people got it. Do you still have the text? I haven't found mine yet, but a number of people have expressed interest. Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From macbiesz at optonline.net Wed Apr 14 10:55:38 2004 From: macbiesz at optonline.net (Maciek Bieszczad) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:55:38 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) In-Reply-To: <20040414001625.GH79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <000901c421bb$340106e0$04fea8c0@DELL> You can download PostScript and PDF versions of the Lions book here: http://morris.xsdeny.net/data/docs/unix/lionc.ps http://morris.xsdeny.net/data/docs/unix/lionc.pdf You can also view Google's rendition here: http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~epaulson/lionc .ps In my opinion, the LaTeX version would still be interesting. The previously mentioned files themselves were probably produced from that source. From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au Wed Apr 14 11:16:26 2004 From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:16:26 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) In-Reply-To: <20040414001625.GH79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <20040414001625.GH79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20040414011625.GK10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> On 2004-Apr-14 09:46:25 +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 20:06:43 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> [Lions book] >>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) >> >> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa >> 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand >> given the comments that came with the readme. > >Yes, that's the one I got. From memory, the subject was "Leo's notes" >and it was uuencoded or some such. Strangely, not many people got it. Google agrees that the subject was "Leo's notes" and it was posted in 7 uuencoded parts in mid-June 1994. Unfortunately, Google doesn't appear to have kept a copy of the posting (just the whinges about the size). I don't remember seeing it (I don't think I looked at AFC very often then) and don't seem to have a copy. I'd also be interested if anyone still has a copy. -- Peter Jeremy From kwall at kurtwerks.com Wed Apr 14 11:33:41 2004 From: kwall at kurtwerks.com (Kurt Wall) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:33:41 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <20040413231746.GD79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20040413231746.GD79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20040414013341.GB17018@kurtwerks.com> In a 1.6K blaze of typing glory, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 18:35:02 -0400, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote: > > ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) writes: > >> I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them. They > >> suggested I try used book web pages. There is a copy available on > >> half.com as of this writing for around $100. > > > > Wow. > > > > Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) > > Somewhere I had a TeX source file of it that went round > alt.folklore.computers about ten years ago. I took a brief look > yesterday but couldn't find it. If I try harder, there's a good > chance that I will. Would anybody be interested? Yup. Kurt -- For 20 dollars, I'll give you a good fortune next time ... From grog at lemis.com Wed Apr 14 13:01:13 2004 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:31:13 +0930 Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) In-Reply-To: <20040414011625.GK10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <20040414001625.GH79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040414011625.GK10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: <20040414030113.GK79564@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Wednesday, 14 April 2004 at 11:16:26 +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2004-Apr-14 09:46:25 +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 20:06:43 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>> [Lions book] >>>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) >>> >>> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa >>> 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand >>> given the comments that came with the readme. >> >> Yes, that's the one I got. From memory, the subject was "Leo's notes" >> and it was uuencoded or some such. Strangely, not many people got it. > > Google agrees that the subject was "Leo's notes" and it was posted in > 7 uuencoded parts in mid-June 1994. I didn't recall that it was that many. Unfortunately, I didn't retain the original articles. Google appears to be wrong about the date, though: my copy is dated May 19, 1994. > I don't remember seeing it (I don't think I looked at AFC very often > then) and don't seem to have a copy. I'd also be interested if > anyone still has a copy. Yes, I've found it now and put it up in multiple formats at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/. Enjoy! Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From list-tuhs at cosmic.com Thu Apr 15 01:04:48 2004 From: list-tuhs at cosmic.com (Mirian Crzig Lennox) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:04:48 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <7rad1e38j3.fsf@ducky.sandstorm.net> shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > [Lions book] >> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) > > Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa > 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand > given the comments that came with the readme. I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in the content, not the typography.) cheers, Mirian From arnold at skeeve.com Thu Apr 15 01:46:54 2004 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:46:54 +0300 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <200404141546.i3EFkse7006339@skeeve.com> > To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > From: Mirian Crzig Lennox > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:04:48 -0400 > > I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of > dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. I have no doubt that the commentary was produced with the V6 nroff. It has the look of machine-formatted text about it, although it was clearly printed on a constant-width line printer of the time. Now, were anyone so truly perverse, they might take the latex and convert it into nroff/troff. :-) Arnold From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Thu Apr 15 02:18:11 2004 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:18:11 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <7rad1e38j3.fsf@ducky.sandstorm.net> Message-ID: <003701c4223c$1545e1e0$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mirian Crzig Lennox" > > I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of > dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. > > (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in > the content, not the typography.) > When you describe the notes as having been "roughly-typewritten" I think that you may have been misled by the quality of the printer that was used. According to the 'Acknowledgements' in Lions: 'The co-operation of the "nroff" program must also be mentioned. Without it, these notes could never have been produced in this form. However it has yielded some of its more enigmatic secrets so reluctantly, that the author's gratitude is indeed mixed. Certainly "nroff" itself must provide a fertile field for future practitioners of the program ducumenter's art.' From kwall at kurtwerks.com Thu Apr 15 02:51:15 2004 From: kwall at kurtwerks.com (Kurt Wall) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:51:15 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <200404141546.i3EFkse7006339@skeeve.com> References: <200404141546.i3EFkse7006339@skeeve.com> Message-ID: <20040414165115.GA18257@kurtwerks.com> In a 0.7K blaze of typing glory, Aharon Robbins wrote: > > To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > > From: Mirian Crzig Lennox > > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 > > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:04:48 -0400 > > > > I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of > > dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. > > I have no doubt that the commentary was produced with the V6 nroff. > It has the look of machine-formatted text about it, although it was > clearly printed on a constant-width line printer of the time. > > Now, were anyone so truly perverse, they might take the latex and > convert it into nroff/troff. :-) Thus returning to the original form in which it was prepared. There's an appealing circularity and feeling of having come full circle to that... Kurt -- "Whatever the missing mass of the universe is, I hope it's not cockroaches!" -- Mom From list-tuhs at cosmic.com Thu Apr 15 03:21:07 2004 From: list-tuhs at cosmic.com (Mirian Crzig Lennox) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:21:07 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 References: <003701c4223c$1545e1e0$ea8ca140@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <7r65c2327w.fsf@ducky.sandstorm.net> michael_davidson at pacbell.net ("Michael Davidson") writes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mirian Crzig Lennox" >> >> I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of >> dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. >> >> (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in >> the content, not the typography.) > > When you describe the notes as having been "roughly-typewritten" I think > that you may have been misled by the quality of the printer that was used. Not at all; "typewritten" means "written with type": fixed-width, metal impact type on bars or wheels. Surely I can't be the only person on this list who remembers when hardcopy terminals were often called "typewriters". cheers, Mirian From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 15 03:32:46 2004 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:32:46 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <7r65c2327w.fsf@ducky.sandstorm.net> Message-ID: <006f01c42246$809dd920$6401a8c0@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine Actually, no your not. I do. Even though my contacts with computer technology was rather limited, until about thirty odd years ago, and on and off, during the eighties. For example, a shop that my father ran, which did typesetting, used a pair of teletypes to communicate with the host. (Host wasn't a DEC system, he was a related unit.) And surprisingly enough, one of their customers was AT&T, they sent over a manuscript they were having problems setting using the exact same methods being discussed here. My copy of the C manual, that all of us know who wrote, says it was done that way as well. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Mirian Crzig Lennox > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:21 PM > To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 > > michael_davidson at pacbell.net ("Michael Davidson") writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mirian Crzig Lennox" > >> > >> I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of > >> dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. > >> > >> (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in > >> the content, not the typography.) > > > > When you describe the notes as having been "roughly-typewritten" I think > > that you may have been misled by the quality of the printer that was used. > > Not at all; "typewritten" means "written with type": fixed-width, > metal impact type on bars or wheels. Surely I can't be the only > person on this list who remembers when hardcopy terminals were often > called "typewriters". > > cheers, > Mirian > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From arnold at skeeve.com Thu Apr 15 04:38:51 2004 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:38:51 +0300 Subject: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com Message-ID: <200404141838.i3EIcpG1007508@skeeve.com> > > Bell System Technical Journal, July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2. > > you can find many of the documents cited in this issue in the > UNIX Programmer's Manual for the Seventh Edition, Volume 2B, > which is included, for example, in the package > http://telexx.mni.fh-giessen.de/PDP11-UNIX/unix-v7-3.tar.gz The manual can also be gotten online, in postscript and PDF and troff from http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan. Arnold From arnold at skeeve.com Thu Apr 15 05:34:34 2004 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:34:34 +0300 Subject: [TUHS] plug for new book - includes V7 code Message-ID: <200404141934.i3EJYY84008653@skeeve.com> Greetings All. Here is an unashamed but brief plug for my new book, "Linux Programming by Example: The Fundamentals": http://www.phptr.com/title/0131429647 It is an introductory linux/unix programming book that uses both V7 code and current GNU code to teach the basic linux/unix programming API. The preface points at the TUHS archive site. I doubt that anyone on this list would really learn anything from it, but it's sorta topical because it uses V7 code. Also, the cover design is really cool. :-) If this is too commercial for anyone, I apologize; I won't post anything else about it to this list. (If you feel the need, please flame me off list. Thanks.) Thanks, Arnold Robbins From ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu Thu Apr 15 05:39:46 2004 From: ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TUHS] An Interview with John Lions In-Reply-To: <20040413132830.53364.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040413132830.53364.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Kenneth Stailey wrote: > The PDF when viewed in acroread is rather obnoxious to my system, it turns off > controls and the window manager frame and takes over the whole window but love > that google cache. > > http://tinyurl.com/3x4ld > I simply hit 'ESC' and was returned to the Acrobat Reader when using WinXP at work. Eric From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au Thu Apr 15 07:43:13 2004 From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:43:13 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <20040414165115.GA18257@kurtwerks.com> References: <200404141546.i3EFkse7006339@skeeve.com> <20040414165115.GA18257@kurtwerks.com> Message-ID: <20040414214313.GY10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> On 2004-Apr-14 12:51:15 -0400, Kurt Wall wrote: >In a 0.7K blaze of typing glory, Aharon Robbins wrote: >> Now, were anyone so truly perverse, they might take the latex and >> convert it into nroff/troff. :-) > >Thus returning to the original form in which it was prepared. There's >an appealing circularity and feeling of having come full circle to >that... Actually, I'm surprised that someone (presumably John Lions) re-wrote the nroff into LaTeX - it would seem easier to have just used troff for the book. In order to get that 'original' feel, you'll need to find an appropriate DECwriter (LA120?). Remember to hand-write the page numbers and draw in the lines (and maybe boxes) in chapter 23 by hand. Whilst you could re-create the appropriate 7x9 (I think) font for a modern printer - though that will be missing the feel of impact dot-matrix output: random variations in density and missing dots. Personally, I think that is over-doing it. Text is _far_ easier to read when it's properly typeset using a good looking font (that includes descenders) at high resolution (>600dpi). I believe the visual appearance of the original notes was limited by the technology available to John Lions in 1977, rather than a deliberate decision to produce low quality output. Peter From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Apr 15 07:52:52 2004 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <20040414214313.GY10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> References: <200404141546.i3EFkse7006339@skeeve.com> <20040414165115.GA18257@kurtwerks.com> <20040414214313.GY10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: <20040414.155252.105450133.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20040414214313.GY10121 at gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Peter Jeremy writes: : In order to get that 'original' feel, you'll need to find an : appropriate DECwriter (LA120?). Remember to hand-write the page : numbers and draw in the lines (and maybe boxes) in chapter 23 by hand. LA120 is way too late. More like a DECwriter III... Warner From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Apr 15 07:58:45 2004 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:58:45 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book In-Reply-To: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20040414215845.GA89455@minnie.tuhs.org> On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:06:43PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: > [Lions book] > Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa > 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand > given the comments that came with the readme. > Tim. I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives in Australia. 8-) Warren P.S Back from Easter, still catching up with the list. From milov at uwlax.edu Thu Apr 15 08:47:26 2004 From: milov at uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:47:26 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 In-Reply-To: <20040414.155252.105450133.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <200404141546.i3EFkse7006339@skeeve.com> <20040414165115.GA18257@kurtwerks.com> <20040414214313.GY10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> <20040414.155252.105450133.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: On Apr 14, 2004, at 4:52 PM, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20040414214313.GY10121 at gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> > Peter Jeremy writes: > : In order to get that 'original' feel, you'll need to find an > : appropriate DECwriter (LA120?). Remember to hand-write the page > : numbers and draw in the lines (and maybe boxes) in chapter 23 by > hand. > > LA120 is way too late. More like a DECwriter III... I'm betting it would be like my V6 kernel listing... printed on an LA36 DECwriterII. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > -- Milo Velimirović University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA -- There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't. "You are not expected to understand this." From tuhs at cuzuco.com Thu Apr 15 10:43:41 2004 From: tuhs at cuzuco.com (Brian S Walden) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) Message-ID: <200404150043.UAA11983@cuzuco.com> Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: .... > >>> [Lions book] > >>>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) > >>> > >>> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa > >>> 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand > >>> given the comments that came with the readme. > >> > > Yes, I've found it now and put it up in multiple formats at > http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/. Enjoy! > > Greg I resurrected the Lions' source code for the commentary I made some 15 years back -- line numbers at all. It had been lost for some time and it took a bit, but I finally found it on some obsolete media. In making it I didn't have v6 source so it was reverted from v7. See http://v6.cuzuco.com/ -B From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Apr 15 15:40:45 2004 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:40:45 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book In-Reply-To: <20040414231845.GC10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> References: <407C8093.nailC4G1164MX@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <20040414215845.GA89455@minnie.tuhs.org> <20040414231845.GC10121@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: <20040415054045.GA99769@minnie.tuhs.org> On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:06:43PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>> Latex source to the Lions book was posted to alt.folklore.computers >>> circa 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand. On 2004-Apr-15 07:58:45 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: >>I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives >>in Australia. On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:18:45AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: >That would rule out John since he no longer lives in Australia. True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the act. Warren From dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com Thu Apr 15 17:26:11 2004 From: dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com (dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:26:11 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book Message-ID: <51f1b7b159b1a354abb0bb4ad1b0d0df@plan9.bell-labs.com> Bibliographic notes: It appears that the version of the commentary that appeared on Usenet and has been transformed variously is just the notes. So far as I can tell, it's an accurate rendition of them. There were ~2 original versions of the two-volume work (the source and the commentary). The two versions are-- Those produced at UNSW: the one I have are in red (source) and orange (commentary) covers. There might have been more than one printing of this. The commentary was probably done on some nice terminal like the Diablo daisy-wheel. The source was rendered on a dot-matrix terminal. The second version was done within AT&T/WECo for internal use, and could also be ordered by licensees--perhaps it was even included with a tape. Salus says these were no longer available by 1978. These have pale blue covers. The contents were, I believe, a photocopy of one of the UNSW renditions. The Peer-to-Peer edition (1996) is probably a photocopy of an AT&T version; it contains various labels that doubtless would have been in them. But they could have been stripped in from tape labels or somewhere. Perhaps Berny Goodheart would know about this part of the production process. The UNSW version I have has, on its title page for the source book, a paragraph that says "This document may contain information covered by one or more licenses...." and is noted by Lions as issued in June, 1977. The PtoP version of this page is in a different font, and has a splash label in printer font "This information is proprietary and is the property of Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc...." It's noted by Lions as of November 1977, and marked "second printing." It would be nice to cajole PtoP into reprinting, although the combination of the TUHS V6 sources and the various renditions of the commentary contain most of the information (though without the heartfelt encomia). Dennis From arnold at skeeve.com Thu Apr 15 21:11:06 2004 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:11:06 +0300 Subject: [TUHS] Booting v6 Message-ID: <200404151111.i3FBB6VL014309@skeeve.com> > > I have no doubt that the commentary was produced with the V6 nroff. > > It has the look of machine-formatted text about it, although it was > > clearly printed on a constant-width line printer of the time. > > > > Now, were anyone so truly perverse, they might take the latex and > > convert it into nroff/troff. :-) > > Thus returning to the original form in which it was prepared. There's > an appealing circularity and feeling of having come full circle to > that... Doing so would be a major Waste Of Time. This fact, in combination with the "appealing circularity" just mentioned makes it highly likely that it *will* be done by a Graduate Student somewhere .... :-) Arnold From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Thu Apr 15 21:37:48 2004 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:37:48 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book Message-ID: <20040415113823.733241EB2@minnie.tuhs.org> I can cite a third edition that existed inside Bell Labs at one point: white covers, with the latter-day AT&T Bell Laboratories name and deathstar logo; AT&T BELL LABORATORIES PROPRIETARY (RESTRICTED) printed across the bottom of every page. The title page also says Use pursuant to G.E.I. 2.2. Instead of `this document may contain information covered by one or more licenses,' there is a paragraph declaring that `This document is restricted to authorized AT&T employees who have a job-related need to know, and holders of a license for the UNIX* Operating System, Level Six, from AT&T Technologies, Inc., subject to the restrictions stated in such license.' And of course the footnote credits the trademark to AT&T Bell Laboratories. The use of the deathstar and the modern company name suggest these were printed post-divestiture, i.e. no earlier than 1984. Andrew Hume came across a few copies of this edition sametime in the late 1980s. I think they came from a load of stuff about to be thrown out by Judy Macor, who used to be the person who handled license paperwork and sent out tapes. For some reason my copy has a paper clip on the page where `You are not expected to understand this' appears. Norman Wilson Toronto ON From tuhs at rops.org Thu Apr 15 22:26:10 2004 From: tuhs at rops.org (Roger Willcocks) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:26:10 +0100 Subject: Fw: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book Message-ID: <005401c422e4$d7ef7960$dc32a8c0@barney> On Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:40 AM, Warren Toomey wrote: > >>I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives > >>in Australia. > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:18:45AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > >That would rule out John since he no longer lives in Australia. > > True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in > Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is > also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He > regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John > Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the > act. Hmmm, try Googling for /interests "unix history" australia latex/ :-) You wouldn't know, off-hand, whether 'Leo' actually rekeyed the content ? -- Roger From billc_2 at charter.net Fri Apr 16 03:11:54 2004 From: billc_2 at charter.net (Bill Cunningham) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:54 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] v6 source Message-ID: <001b01c4230c$c2b15dc0$209c9718@a> I have that source tarball for v6. It's very nice. The only trouble is it will not compile that's for sure and I don't have enough experience with assembly to even look at the labels and mnemonics. It's nice to look at and think this once worked. Bill From tuhs at cuzuco.com Fri Apr 16 06:31:57 2004 From: tuhs at cuzuco.com (Brian S Walden) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) Message-ID: <200404152031.QAA21414@cuzuco.com> I wrote: > I resurrected the Lions' source code for the commentary I made some > 15 years back -- line numbers at all. It had been lost for some time > and it took a bit, but I finally found it on some obsolete media. > In making it I didn't have v6 source so it was reverted from v7. > > See http://v6.cuzuco.com/ Sorry to bother again, but I just noticed that the PostScript versions I uploaded were the portrait mode ones, not landscape. I have put the right ones in now, so if you downloaded them before this message, you'll need to get them again. Both PDFs however were and are correct. -B From wkt at tuhs.org Fri Apr 16 07:46:35 2004 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:46:35 +1000 Subject: Fw: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book In-Reply-To: <005401c422e4$d7ef7960$dc32a8c0@barney> References: <005401c422e4$d7ef7960$dc32a8c0@barney> Message-ID: <20040415214635.GA12817@minnie.tuhs.org> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 01:26:10PM +0100, Roger Willcocks wrote: > > True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in > > Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is > > also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He > > regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John > > Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the > > act. > > You wouldn't know, off-hand, whether 'Leo' actually rekeyed the content ? No, I OCR'd it with Omnipage on a Mac, then edited the typos and added the LaTeX markup. Slow and painful, and there was no way Omnipage was going to cope with the dot-matrix source code. [ Oooh, what a giveaway! ] Warren From mparson at bl.org Fri Apr 16 07:57:54 2004 From: mparson at bl.org (Mike Parson) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:57:54 -0500 Subject: Fw: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book In-Reply-To: <20040415214635.GA12817@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <005401c422e4$d7ef7960$dc32a8c0@barney> <20040415214635.GA12817@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20040415215754.GA22612@ultra.bl.org> On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 07:46:35AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: > On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 01:26:10PM +0100, Roger Willcocks wrote: >>> True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in >>> Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is >>> also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He >>> regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John >>> Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the >>> act. >> >> You wouldn't know, off-hand, whether 'Leo' actually rekeyed the >> content ? > > No, I OCR'd it with Omnipage on a Mac, then edited the typos and added > the LaTeX markup. Slow and painful, and there was no way Omnipage was > going to cope with the dot-matrix source code. Huh... Omnipage's handling of dot-matrix printouts is one of the reasons I will only use it. Back around 94-95, I had a student come into the lab at the university I was working at, her floppy she'd stored her paper on was corrupt some how (don't recall exactly why) and the only copy of her work she had was a draft-quality print off a 9 pin dot-matrix, and pin 4 hadn't been firing. ~120 pages, scanned on the mac and run through OmniPage, very few 'typos' from the OCR. It impressed the heck out of me. > [ Oooh, what a giveaway! ] I won't tell, I promise. -- Michael Parson mparson at bl.org From macbiesz at optonline.net Sun Apr 18 09:04:32 2004 From: macbiesz at optonline.net (Maciek Bieszczad) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:04:32 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6) In-Reply-To: <200404152031.QAA21414@cuzuco.com> Message-ID: <000001c424d0$5831e940$02fea8c0@DELL> There's another program out there that generates the source code listing format found in the Lions book: [taken from http://cardit.et.tudelft.nl/~knop/#programs] Cdg - a C-source Documentation Generator Cdg produces output in a format similar to the layout used in "Source Code and Commentary on UNIX level 6" by John Lions. This format consists of a two-column listing of the sources where all lines are numbered, 100 lines per page. The listing is followed by an extensive cross reference table.